Remember how I bought a John Deere product and hoped I wouldn't regret it? I regret it. So. Much.

"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2)
06/05/2020 at 21:40 • Filed to: Farmlopnik, Stealerships, cotomer sevis

To be fair, it’s not entirely the product’s fault (though it does have some GLARING design faults that are obviously engineered fail-points), it’s the dealership’s faut, compounded by my fault of trusting what are apparently a bunch of (generously) lazy fucks who are not good at thier jobs.

To recap: I bought a 2012 vintage 448 round baler with “All the options”, in as much as that is indeed what it is, I got what I payed for. It was advertised as “field ready” and a “creme puff that’s only done ~3000 bales”

I saw the baler in February, looked it over quickly, it was cold and crappy and it was outside and I didn’t go through it with a fine toothed comb, but I still noticed a few little issues with it... A missing wheel bearing cap and a bodged together repair to the bale shape indicator system. I am looking through my phone now, and I somehow failed to take a picture of that. Oh well, thats the least of the problems. The bale shape indicators are a luxury, if they don’t work the baler still makes bales...

Missing wheel bearing cover, at least the bearing somehow appears to be fine...

In any case, I mentioned it at the Sales Guy said “Oh, we’ll take care of all of that! This is a great baler, I know the owner, We’ll stand behind this, it’ll be absolutely ready to go” I thought to myself “this is a $14,000 sold by a dealership, and it IS shiny, and they’ve said they’ll stand behind it, so it’s probably fine... plus I can get financing at a really attractive interest rate, lets do this!” I signed the paperwork and said we’d be in touch for delivery in the spring.

Covid Crash. First thought: I should have sold some stock and paid cash for that baler...

Months Later: Call them up, lets get it here, weather looks like it’s almost ready for first cut...

Machine is delivered and it is obvious that no one has touched it since I saw it on the lot. The wheel bearing cover is still missing and the bale shape indicator system is a mess of rotten wire and frayed twine just like it was before.

This was my first clue.

I start opening it up and taking a look at the driveline:

HOLY SHIT.

This is the main bale tension arm. One of the highest stress parts in the whole machine.

There is a missing chain guard -asside: if John deere had put a fucking idler in there they wouldn’t need the goddamn chain guard that has gone missing and this kind of damage would never happen in the first place- and the chain had worn it’s way halfway -probably more like 3/4- though the axle tube for the tension arm pivot. This is an expensive part ($1300), and if it were to snap while in operation it could do damage to other parts of the baler.

I call (leave a message) and email about it and they sort of hand wave the damage, “we’ll get you a new chain guard and wheel bearing cap, don’t worry, that will probably hold. Maybe run a bead of weld down the grove, that will for make it for sure fine.” Meanwhile I have stupidly fixed the bale shape indicator system myself using stainless wire, to the tune of ~3 hours labor.

another angle on that chain damage...

Broken tabs where the chain guard is supposed to mount.

This is plausibly in the “wear and tear” category and I think to myself “well they said they’d stand behind it, so if this fails they should fix it” I’m a fucking massive pessimist when it comes to humans in general, but a sappy, pushover optimist when it comes to people individually.

It’s a failing.

So I lube the chains and check out the pickup and rolls. There’s a broken tooth on the pickup rotor, but only one is not a big deal, and surely falls under the “normal wear” header. The rotor is a $1700 part... but one broken tooth is not unexpected in an 8 year old baler.

Meanwhile: The same dealership has had my Zetor for aircon work. they’ve had it for nearly a month without touching it... I call and mention that I’m gonna need it back for hay in the next week, and if they can’t get to it before then, I need it back anyway. Please.

Magically it’s done that afternoon and returned. On the plus side the bill was reasonable and the A/C blows like an icy arctic gale, so I guess that’s OK. The A/c guy they have on staff is well known locally for being good at making tractor A/c sys tems work, and that seems to be true.

Now that I have the tractor that will be hauling this baler back, I can work on integrating the relatively simple electronics for the bale alarm and electric tie...

long story short: several hours and multiple trips to the auto parts store for connector and bits and it still doesn’t work. The bale alarm doesn’t seem to work and the tie control box is missing the connector for the motor and appears to do nothing.

I open it up:

What even is this? Who put those ring terminals on there and why? and why is the connector missing? This control box lists for $900 from Deere, All I can say is I hope Deere and Co gives thier dealers a good markup on this too becuase I could build this with parts from Amazon (barring the code in the microcontroller and specs for the current sensing resistors for the the motor) for ~$50. Retial. Thats INSANE. But the price of the part is neither here nor there, they fact is, it’s busted. I even re-wired the switch, it will only run the motor in one direction.

We are now firmly into the “not field ready” category. This will NOT run the twine tie system. I am no longer irritated, I am very angry. Also, just yesterday I sold my old WORKING baler. I call and write such to the sales guy, he’s my only contact at the dealership... he writes back and says “it was making bales when I saw it, let me get in touch with the guy who owned it....”

he then writes back shortly afterword and says “guy feels bad about it not working, he’s gonna stop by this morning (2nd day after saying this was a problem) and talk to you about what he’s done...

I write back “I’m not much concerned with how the previous owner feels, I’m concerned with how this baler was represented to me at the time I signed the $14000 loan and you got paid”

there is no response to this.

Lo and behold the PO of the baler actually show up. He shows up with this.

Yeah, thats 2 $10 no-name chinese switches from the autoparts store wired as a replacement for a reversing relay. This tehnically “works” but its a fire and electrical hazzard.

He then goes on to regale me about how the bale alarm hasn’t worked for years and he’s had to replace a lot of belts in this baler... “the shop guys say I must be over loading the baler and stretching the belts, but since they have to cut the belts shorter to remove the damaged section and then splice in a new section that must be bullshit, because they have to make the belts longer. Dealerships, right?” This is 100% a sign of constant overloading from the faulty bale alarm.

He then says “I had to weld that one arm there, on the aux takeup roller, that broke last year, we did a couple hundred bales on it, it should hold, but the part’s not too expensive ($250)“ This is another sign of serial overloading.

He THEN goes on to mention that the slipper clutch has needed to be adjusted a bunch because he was breaking drive chains... can you guess? Yeah, thats something that happens when the baler gets overloaded regularly.

I ask him about the chain guard he says “There’s never been anything there”

Yeah, yeah there has, the stubbs of the broken off tabs prove that. Idiot. I mention to him “if I had wanted a project baler, I could have bought one” he says “I didn’t want a project baler so I bought a new one”

Fuck. Me. Running. Agnes.

He brought the manual and an extra belt, both of which I have been waiting for and was promised from the start.

He also mentions that the counter has turned over, and it’s got ~13000 bales on it, not ~3000 as advertised. I mean, lets be honest, that’s still not a huge count, and I don’t really care other than the false advertisement.

He kinda shrugs and leaves.

I email / call the sales guys again. the jist is “this is not a feild ready baler, it needs to be fixed and I am very unhappy, what are you going to do about it? P.S. I have to mow on Sunday and that means I need a working baler by Tuesday, Wednesday at the latest.”

he emails back and asks for the part number of the control box... but no timeframe, no offer of a loaner, no statement that he’ll fix it.. in fact I get this:

“I want to help you I really do, but please keep in mind this is a used baler. A new baler is $ 34,000. It’s a one owner, he took good care of it and I say that because of what I see everyday on used balers. Regardless of what you may feel right now this is a very good baler that will last a very long time. I am looking into the control box issue and what can be done. I do want you to have a good experience with our dealership. I do care about my customers and I do care about you and your operation. I want us both to be successful and I want future business. I will get back to you I promise.”

That’s most of the right words (aside from telling me how much a new baler is, I FUCKING KNOW how much a new one costs you prick.), but I am no longer feeling good at all about this. Not one bit.

Just for an example of the detail oriented nature of the dealership, the baler is listed as “new”condition on the official paperwork for my John Deere Financial loan.

Tell me I’m right to be fucking pissed about this, and suggest anything you can think of. I need to go read the consumer protection laws in Vermont as they relate to used farm equipment. I am ripshit.

Thanks for listening Oppo.

DISCUSSION (49)

Just Jeepin' > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 21:55

That’s horrific. I’d definitely get a lawyer, but there’s no way they can make this right in a timely fashion.

CB > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 21:56

That’s garbage and fuck that salesman.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Just Jeepin'
06/05/2020 at 21:59

A loaner while they fix this one would make me atleast feel like I have a chance.

RacinBob > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:07

The sad thing is, they were probably took by the guy who traded it in. (that is unless the whole thing is fabricated and they got it from a bankruptcy auction.

My response is dude you are the dealer, you sold me a lemon. Make it right at 1/2 your cost or we have a problem. I would figure his cost to be parts price/1.66 markup. If he is responsible, he will own up to his mistake and split cost with you.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > RacinBob
06/05/2020 at 22:11

you’re probab ly right. I got a vibe of “ asshole” from the dude. He blamed his kid for not sending the switch parts along with the baler when they came to pick it up “W hat’re you gonna do, they’re young!”

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:11

I would lawyer up if they don’t make it right by Tuesday. Farm equipment gets used hard, I get that but it doesn’t mean it should be broken and have several glaring issues.

UserNotFound > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:12

That’s there’s some real bullshit you've been dealing with .

facw > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:12

Well shit...

Given what you hear about both John Deere and dealers in general, the only thing that surprises me is that they are even half-assedly trying to do anything for you.

Also, maybe I am more cynical than you, but my first thought about that “new” on the loan paperwork is that they are defrauding the lender, not that they are sloppy with their paperwork.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
06/05/2020 at 22:13

Especially when it’s advertised as “field ready”. At an auction, I know to take that statement with a grain of “no warranty, we just sell this shit” But I was hoping a dealership would be a bit more... I don’t know, responsible?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > UserNotFound
06/05/2020 at 22:13

Fresh and stinky. I am not pleased.

jminer > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:13

You got screwed - sorry. I don’t know about Vermont but in some places Farm/Industrial equipment falls outside of your traditional consumer protection laws. This definitely falls under shady sales guy did you wrong - maybe give John Deere a call and they can pressure the dealer? They’re not known for being awesome to deal with though...

I grew up on a small farm with a neighbor who ran a fairly large horse ranch/training operation. He bails a ton of hay and he runs it all on 20+ year old equipment and pays a mechanic full time to maintain his tractors and gear so he doesn’t have to deal with the dealers. He’s definitely at a different scale though so it makes sense for him.

My only hands-on experience with Deere equipment is that built pre-1980 and it was always solid and easy(ish) to fix but that’s a long way removed from what they have made in this millennium .

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > facw
06/05/2020 at 22:14

That was actually my thought too, the lender fraud that is.

Brickman > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:14

O_O I have no words of how crappy that is!

BigBlock440 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:19

So, I’ve never used a baler with a circuit board, or a JD younger than me, so I don’t know what that’s supposed to do but I do know JD is pricks about letting people work on their own stuff. Could the ring terminals be some sort of bypass to allow the baler to still operate without getting the dealer to reset the computer?

Nibby > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:21

yea john deere is doing a lot to royally fuck customers with older tractors to get them to buy new ones... planned obsolescence and whatnot... in the future do not support this scumbag company

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > BigBlock440
06/05/2020 at 22:21

I would say you’re on the right track, except that the box is busted, plain and simple. I think the PO probably tried to replace the switch with an external part or something... Or maybe tried to integrate it into some other half-assed electrical nightmare and that blew it up... This baler is too simple (I hope) to have a software lockout.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Nibby
06/05/2020 at 22:23

Yeah, I know that. I would never buy a new(er) JD tractor with th ei r policies right now. I hoped a used, relatively simple baler would be an OK purchase. A pparently not.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:28

If it’s listed as new on the documents, could you go after the dealership legally for false advertising?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
06/05/2020 at 22:29

Amen to this....they screwed you over and pretended this was something it is CLEARLY not!

Manny05x > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:31

They the Apple of tractors at this point.

RacinBob > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:32

Most dealers are decent. I take to the assumption that your salesman didn’t see this coming. My strategy would be to escalate this by a sking the salesman for the email of his manager/owner,

Talk to them and and explain they sold you a non working bailer. I believe everybody thought this was a fair deal till it wasn’t. O ne of 20 sales goes south. My attitude is S’’t happens, lets work this out and if you give me a smoking hot deal on the parts, I will do the labor. Then offer them the chance of splitting their cost of the parts (parts retail /1.66 divided by 2) that is not a horrible deal.

If you get the interraction high enough, the manager/executive can make it right , Remember they made good money on the original transaction, they can l ose a little on the parts.

This is spoken by a guy who works with dealers in a different industry.

Michael > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:35

If 13,000 bales isn't a lot, why doesn't the bale-ometer have a 5th digit?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Michael
06/05/2020 at 22:36

lameness. Good balers make hundreds of thousands of bales in their life.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
06/05/2020 at 22:38

My thoughts, they are t he same as yours .

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Manny05x
06/05/2020 at 22:38

Yes, yes they are.

Michael > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:39

That’s ok. Mines from before hour gauges were a thing

Kinja'd!!!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 22:55

Please keep us apprised on this because your situation is utter bullshit...

UserNotFound > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 23:01

You have every right to be exorbitantly perturbed.

PartyPooper2012 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 23:10

Back in my farming days we didnt have all this fancy equipment. We had pitchforks and rakes... But that was Soviet Union.

Sorry for your troubles. I would get an attorney before I pick up a call to the dealer again.

I have been hearing lots of complaints about JD - sales, service, customer relations. Time to go to something more... asian? I don’t know if Kubota or the likes make balers.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > PartyPooper2012
06/05/2020 at 23:14

Kubota bought Vicon, or at least in the US Kubota balers are Vicon, and Vicon no longer sells balers in the US. The Vicon stuff is Italian, light-duty, but generally OK-ish. Kubota-branded Vicons are not cheap :/ If there were a Vermeer dealer within 250 miles of me I might consider one... There's a local dealer that sells McHale... I hear good things in general about them (McHale)

PartyPooper2012 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 23:22

sounds promising, but imagine you needed service.. 300 miles out of the way is probably not too convenient... tho I have driven further to look at junk to buy lol.

I don’t know. as far as your baler issue, I would speak with a lawyer and either return for refund or have dealer make repairs enough to where baler work for now. I mean a gizmo that doesn’t do gizmo stuff, isn’t a gizmo but a paperweight.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 23:24

The dealership said it was new and put it in writing. You have a false advertising claim. I’d go after them sooner rather than later, if you wait too long they can argue that you’ve caused the wear since taking delivery.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > RacinBob
06/05/2020 at 23:27

If the dealer was unable to inspect the baler and understand the seriousness of the wear, they should not be a dealer.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/05/2020 at 23:50

Somebody other than Hesston makes balers? News to me...

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/06/2020 at 00:14

Where in VT are you? Dad’s a lawyer in SE VT. 50-something years in practice, I’m not sure there are too many lawyers in the state that he doesn’t know at least by reputation. Lemme know if you want a referral - I’m sure he could hook you up with someone good, relatively close to you.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/06/2020 at 00:53

Maybe call the financing company and tell them that they made a loan for something that was misrepresented by the dealership.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/06/2020 at 00:57

Maybe they have a loner that you could just keep.

Ermahgerd! > Manny05x
06/06/2020 at 01:03

I dunno, at least my iPhone is rusting out before I even put it to work.

Thisismydisplayname > Nibby
06/06/2020 at 07:35

And not letting the customers work on their own equipment. Pretty bogus deal.

My coworker has a 30-40 year old combine they keep running just because it’s still able to be repaired and doesn’t have all the electronics the new machines do.

Nibby > Thisismydisplayname
06/06/2020 at 09:01

BURN JOHN DEERE INTO OBLIVION

TheRealBicycleBuck > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/06/2020 at 09:15

Wow. What amazes me about the heavy equipment business is how easy it is to get financing. My buddy the farmer/mechanic/dirt business owner bought a huge bulldozer with nothing more than his signature. He said there was more paperwork involved in buying his house, which cost less than the bulldozer.

Good luck to you.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/06/2020 at 10:32

That sales douche is trying to gaslight you. He has zero intention of actually making this right. It’s also extremely likely that baler never went through the shop before sale, before you saw it. Or if it did, sales denied all repairs. But if it did go through the shop and had a bunch of recommendations, there should be a paper trail of that, which would prove it’s not a field-ready cream puff. Shitty thing is, there is probably something in the paperwork that says it was being sold As-is, which might mean you’re fucked. But that other part of the paperwork saying New, you might get lucky.

Point is, never ever ever in any industry ever ever ever trust anything a salesman says. They don’t usually say things trying to pull one over on people, that’s actually pretty rare, but the vast majority of them are idiots that don’t live in the real world. They don’t understand how things work. They should be used as nothing more a tool for you to physically get to the product you want and then get the paperwork you need. That’s it. Don’t trust them to even understand basic functions that are clearly outlined in the owner’s manual, because they’ve never read one and don’t give a fuck.

You should definitely lawyer up, otherwise, I’d bet a lot of money they won’t make this right.

RacinBob > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
06/06/2020 at 11:07

So you are right, this unit got a casual lookover and they missed some things. Lesson learned, but we are not here to fix the dealer. We are not here to get the salesman fired.

We are here to get the unit back to a serviceable condition and bail some hay.

So identify what needs to be fixed so that you are happy and the manager gets you off their back . Escallate this and get them to make you a smoking hot deal on the parts needed to make you whole and back bailing hay.

John Holley > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/07/2020 at 16:35

Man I’m pretty much in the same boat as you with JD. They’re the ONLY game anywhere close to me for service and parts. So, I swallow my.......whatever you want to say......and get what I need. Just remember that JD dealers are Independent and they are NOT owned by JD Corp. JD Corp had nothing to do with a used piece of equipment being sold. Your only recourse is to force the dealer to fix it on their dime or undo the sales transaction. That being said, who did the financing go through? JD Financial? Local lender? I would definitely do at least 2 things to get the ball rolling. First, stop emailing and calling the dealer. Go your ass down there and keep climbing the ladder in that organization until you get to a decision maker and make sure you go armed with pictures at a minimum or better yet hitch that puppy up to a truck and just take the evidence with you. Don’t leave until you get satisfaction. Second, I wouldn’t be shy at all about calling the lender to complain and inform them that your Attorney will be working on a civil complaint to be filed against both the dealer as well as the lender. This will definitely help you gain some leverage and will surely put them on notice that this issue is NOT going away. The dealer relies on the finance company no matter what to make sales happen because most people are not farming out of their pockets and they can’t afford to piss off the lender . I would threaten to NEVER make a payment if they don’t help you get the dealer to do the right thing since they sold to you as field ready. I'm sure there are consumer protection laws in your state as well but a lawyer will have to weigh in on that topic. Only other observation I can make is that some lenders charge different rates for New vs Used equipment. It is not likely that the item was falsely classified to access a different interest rate but it is possible and I’d question the lender as to their policies just to be sure which could also increase your leverage......not likely but worth asking. Stop whining about this shit and demand that the dealer fix the major issues at their expense or undo the sale. Very simple, fix this shit or let’s go to court.......end of discussion.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > John Holley
06/07/2020 at 18:53

JD Financ ia l is the lender. The problem I’ ve got right now is I need to MAKE HAY THIS WEEK, and I sold my old baler. We’re a two-man operation (me and the wife) and we run 150 head of sheep, chickens, ducks, and a wool and yarn business. I know I need to do it, but making time to go pound desks at the dealership is a real time crunch...

Whitehorse > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/07/2020 at 20:14

I can't believe you still call it a "Dealership" we call them "Stealerships"!!!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Whitehorse
06/07/2020 at 20:46

it’s tagged under “stealerships”

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Dead_Elvis, Inc.
06/07/2020 at 20:50

I’m in Orleans Co unty... We like our local small town lawyer, but she only does Family/R ealestate

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
06/08/2020 at 00:09

shoot me an email with your contact info.

gmail - neilvis.presley